The "noble" Oliver Cromwell"It is a country where there is not enough water to drown a man, wood enough to hang one, nor earth enough to bury him"
In the wake of the "Noble" Cromwellian conquest, all Catholic-owned land was confiscated in the Act for the Settlement of Ireland 1652, the "practice" of Roman Catholicism was banned, and bounties were offered for priests.
From Sara Bronfman
“Our satellite center, founded in April 2010 by Sara Bronfman, upholds the mission of our parent company: to raise human awareness, foster an ethical humanitarianism, and celebrate what it truly means to be human. Through the programs implemented by Executive Success Programs, we hope to help transform and, ultimately, be an expression of noble human civilization”
Let me explain something to you Sara from an Irish Catholic standpoint. We had a noble civilization try to colonize us for 600 years. You would call it the British Empire.
The uneducated Irish peasants had a saying too.
The more noble the less wise.
28 comments:
Wha'aaaaaaaaaaat ??????????????
I need to go ask Keith about this.
"The NXIVM Vision: Creating a rational, ethical world"
Raniere's version of a rational, ethical world: I have a dick. Evolution says it is my nature to spread my seed. Must stick it in as many woman as I can.
Well, perhaps the idea of bounties on priests should be revisited -- at least on the many who have sexually abused children.
A group is defined by its leader, who is the exemplification of it. If the leader is diseased, the disease will be transfered down to the followers of the group.
And nooooooow, the Quote Game !!!!
Here are the quotes :
Words build bridges into unexplored regions.
All great movements are popular movements. They are the volcanic eruptions of human passions and emotions, stirred into activity by the ruthless Goddess of Distress or by the torch of the spoken word cast into the midst of the people.
Ooooh ! That sounds nice ! But he also said :
If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.
It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.
It is not truth that matters, but victory.
Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
But who is it ? A Vanguard fellow ?
One clue : The (wo?)man whas considered as the vanguard of it's time by many.
Another clue tomorrow :)
P.S. : Don't google-cheat ;)
Yes John, another way to see it is: in the sandwich of life, the more bread you have, the more shit it takes to fill it up.
Executive Success Programs and Keith Raniere's Rantional Inquiry provides the rich cover for very UNETHICAL behavior. NXIVM's definition of ethical is that only the elite should be leaders because they are superior to the less fortunate.
Only the elite are allowed to take their Executive Success Programs. Of course NXIVM does let in a few others, those with self esteem issues usually, to be turned into slaves and drones to serve them.
After their egos are bloaeted with Keith Raniere's fuckery, I mean Rational Inquiry, this elite corps can be manipulated also. After all, the elite suffer self esteem issues too. Salinas, son of a Mexican president, the Bronfman girls, all understand at some level that their position in life is not because they earned it, but because daddy or grandpa did. Keith Raniere's followers do not really own their success, until they take Executive Success Program training. Then they have Keith Raniere's fantasies and delusions in their heads, driving some to breakdowns and suicide.
Cromwell was a tyrant like Raniere. As a Puritan he believed he knew exactly how everyone should live and like Raniere he would "have people killed for their beliefs".
He was so bad he even banned Christmas.
Cromwell left a dark stain on Ireland, like Keith Raniere is leaving a dark stain here.
More from NXIVM's website on their mission:
"NXIVM embodies a set of consistent and universal principles in which all humans can participate. These principles - apart from any mystical or religious notions - allow for life to persist and uphold a diversity of beliefs."
Emphasis on the "apart from mystical or religious notions". In other words, the implication is that the latter does not allow life to persist or uphold a diversity of beliefs.
This is the same filth that is spewed by the anti-religious element that typically pervades the liberal/hedonistic/atheistic element of society.
Just like religious adherents have their extremist elements, scientists have those who adhere to scientism.
When people forget God, God forgets them. Then you end up with a world where people fall under the misguidance of people like Raniere.
"But you took them for a mockery until they made you forget My remembrance and you used to laugh at them."
"What! Did you then think that We had created you in vain and that you will not be returned to Us?"
"Knowledge is good" -- Emil Faber
(if you don't know who Emil Faber was, go watch Animal House 7 times)
Maybe it's not that complicated sez:
Maybe the Bronfmans involvement with NXIVM merely reflects the fact that gene pools get watered down by excessive inbreeding.
Maybe Sarah really is just a not very bright little twit who is still trying to resolve her daddy issues.
Maybe Claire is just in love with the first man who fucked her without requiring her to pay him up-front in cash.
I'm just saying...maybe it's not that complicated.
http://basecampbeans.wordpress.com/
Another site offering word of e-mouth advertising for our favorite cult leader. Sad that people like Raniere do not come with warning tags attached - maybe Sara and this other hero worshipper really do/did have good intentions and will someday have to face how their promotion and protection of the sociopath helped him continue to use and abuse people.
"my evaluation criteria for success has fundamentally shifted and looking back, though I’d achieved quite a bit, I feel as if I was more or less just getting lucky."
Umm...ok.
So, all the success he had before was because of luck, but since he met Keith who "was able to help me [him] to the place that [he] couldn't quite find [him]self", he's now better off?
Yes, I am sure Keith and NXIVM took you to a place that you didn't even know and somehow made you think you found something in yourself and were better off, even though you don't seem to have a clue what that is.
It's called brainwashing.
Unfortunatly, they have been long enought for a ride with raniere that they know exactly what he's doing is evil. They just choose to ranionalize it in a way that let's them sleep at night. Sort of like it may not be the right thing to do but in the long term it is the right thing to do, as long as it furthers the stupid mission it's ok regardless of the cost bullshit. Raniere just feeds them some shit and they buy it because they believe he's the smartest guy in the world. Also, if you think about it pretty hard it's difficult to face yourself and admit that for years you have been manipulated and lied to. It's easier to defend the program then to really see it for what it is. I think that's why some people who are out still think the program is good. IT's difficult to admit or even think that some one duped you especially when there's others like you who keep reinforcing that everything is good and perfect. I'm sure the bronfman girls wake up and wonder to themselves...is this what I signed up for initially, but unfortunatly they are not strong enough to come to terms with the bullshit that raniere has been propogating. If they had no money left then they would see the world in a whole different way. I further believe that Claire has become part of the "inner family" like pam, keefe, Karen, the one's that will do what needs to be done no matter the cost or the effort as long as little smelly man says to do it.
Very depressing and sad, I'm sure their father must have some serious anxiety and depression issues knowing what his daughters are in for. I would If I was him. No father should have see his daughters being mentally raped by a sociopath like raniere.
John thanks for all the work you are doing exposing the little Vanfraud fucker.
What would be hard to imagine if Raniere gets them into legal trouble and tries to shift blame to them as he does to everyone else. God knows what illegal things he has asked them to do or participate in. It would be interesting if they faced criminal charges due to the smelly mans actions. Sad very sad.
Wasn't the judge in the Susan Donnes case supposed to give a judgment on the 7th of January. Any news on that front?
That is next
"we hope to help transform and, ultimately, be an expression of noble human civilization"
I have to say, these nxivm people really need a good copy editor. "be an expression"???? you can not "be" an expression, an expression is just an abstract noun. Your actions can be an expression, but not you! Oy Vey these people!!
And especially that pap Keith passes off for wisdom. It makes me crazy- poor grammar, poor cadence, mixed metaphors, awkward transitions... it's maddening! Who could believe these people are highly intelligent? The writing is all like an 8th grader wrote it. Oh wait, maybe that explains it...Keith just gets his new girlfriends to do it after they get home from school. It all falls into place now...
ghost dog above,
They ar not intelligent.
They are a bunch of idiots who like to pretend they are intelligent.
Most intelligent people use simple words, not to impress someone with their writing but to communicate effectively and efficiently.
But not these assholes. They want everyone to think they are elite and super intelligent.
Anyone paying money for nxivm is one hell of an idiot.
Raniere is a con man not a smart man
They will all be dead from a mass Raniere-instigated suicide within the next couple of years if something isn't done. So sorry, so sad and doing everything possible to stop it but it's true. That's the way it goes with these meglo's, God help you. Please get out, get help, now!
Sara, you remind me so much of my sister, dear. And you too, Claire, remind me of me. I know how he plays you. Maybe someday I'll tell you, about how in India on the way to Hong Kong, they had me in 1st class, with the Lama, and her in the coach class, deliberately in back...it's been Keith's goal for so long. Darlings, you too, two, are pawns.
Keith is famous for playing one woman against another. When they speak out about this he tells them it's their attachments that are the problem. The real problem 'is' their attachment to him and his manipulations of their insecurities. This doesn't really include Pam, Karen U., Kristin because they know the BS he speaks. Pam actually pimps him out, drives him around and gets girls for him (or she used to). They are the ones he sends the women to to fix their issues. Nancy is so insecure she's on both sides of this. In a meeting she's a wonderful speaker but outside of that she appears to be a nervous wreck even in the good times. I feel sorry for her and I hope she seeks healing from another source besides the mind-centered teachings of ESP. Keith's ego is so big he will never (without an act of God, literally) change his manipulative ways.
In taking classes I couldn't help but see that many of them are teaching ways to explain and excuse bad behavior and ethics. It became clear that a class was created when Keith needed to cover his behaviour with double speak. I will admit that some of the teachings are of value, looking at the world in a different way and taking responsibility for one's own actions; but you can find that everywhere in other teachings.
The 'community' has created low paying jobs so that members can pay their huge debts for taking classes and advancing in the program. It breeds dependence on the wealthier members to be used on Clare's farm, in the center, cleaning, plowing, at Nancy's house, in various ways. Many have to 'exchange' their time and effort without pay to pay back what they owe at the direction of higher ups. And in the end, what they find out is that their is no good accounting. When they thought they were done 'paying' after slaving away, they are told they still owe more. The accounting for the multiple corporations is terrible (on purpose probably). NXIVM requires full pay back but doesn't pay it's own debts to people.
Many are scared that they will get the call that they still owe 'something' and therefore cannot get out. Many also have not been paid for the labor they put in so that the center could operate for their intensives. Members want to accomodate and please Keith and will slave for him, which is exploited by his women to get members to work for free.
It is a one way street where 'exchange' is concerned. ESP is well known NOT to pay back borrowed money, pay for services rendered, etc. One call if you question this may say, "Hasn't Keith been good to you? Hasn't he helped you?" It's BS and more manipulation by his women doing his dirty work.
What a shame that good people wanting to grow personally have been swept into this warped system that worships a man who may be more intelligent than they are (or not). He is no god, he is just very good at knowing how people work and therefore can mind warp his minions into his plot to be king, and it' working. There are many really nice, kind, loving people who have been duped. They are not zombies or stupid they are manipulated and see only one side of him.
He's a master of diguise and hides well the dark side. They are taught early on not to speak 'dishonorably' about anyone. You should only speak what you see. So if your nice neighbor is wonderful to you but has bodies buried in his back yard that you don't know of, and someone tell you of it, you cannot speak of it?? That would be speaking dishonorably. THAT'S how many of them stay. They have never witnessed the deeds of Keith and therefore cannot speak badly of him. I think the lawsuits speak for themselves and we know who the mastermind behind them is. That's proof enough for me. He is a SICK man people. MOve on with your lives and move quickly... LIES, MORE LIES...that's how they operate to get what they want...PAYBACK WILL BE A BITCH SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW..
Quote game, today's clue : His dog was named 'Blondi'.
Anything new from Tick Tock ?
Want to see raniere in an orange suit
Hopefully bartender keefe and pimp pam will be joining him. Karen, I doubt she knows where she is most of the time.
Thanks John,
Keep up posted
fuck nxivm
Following is from a website forum for genius types. Keith Raniere went looking for friends there once upon a Christmas day in 2007.
by Anemone on Fri Nov 16, 2007 03:40
I think #3 Vanguard = Keith Raniere. He scored 46/48 on the Mega test, was in Mega Society for a while, now he runs a cult (sorry - personal growth seminars/intensives) and is called "Vanguard" by his followers. Google his name for some weird stuff. Someone invited me to an info session for Executive Success Programs (his org.) which is how I know about him.
He tells his followers he's the smartest person in the world ("world's greatest problem solver") with an IQ of 240. I'd hate to tell them the threshold for genius is IQ 120.
Post by Christelle on Fri Nov 16, 2007 08:51
Hi !
Indeed, googling, I have found that :
http://www.espian.net/
Christelle
Post by Keith A. Raniere on Tue Dec 25, 2007 09:23
Oh! Don't believe everything you read. I am called "Vanguard" as a title... I did not pick this... but a "cult?" Methinks a more detailed examination might be in order. Yes, I have one of those childhood silly scores. 120 is genius if the s.d. is small enough but I don't think that is traditional. As far as Executive Success Programs is concerned: if you are a critical thinker, it is designed to provide endless hours of enjoyment. But if you do not like philosophy, situational ethics explorations or other cerebral pursuits you should take something else.
Keith A. Raniere
Post by Christelle on Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:27
OK Keith ! :roll19
And welcome here, Keith ! :cheesy19
Happy Xmas to you Keith ! :mrgreen19
Christelle
Keith A. Raniere wrote:
You're welcome and happy x-mas 2u2! Do you not believe I am the above referenced Keith Raniere?
I don't know...
Christelle
by Keith A. Raniere on Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:25
Fair enough. I haven't been active in either(?) of the Mega society groups in a few years. I came upon this board when I googled my name and found it on a test. This looks interesting... what is it/are you? I apologize for I have not "read around" yet to figure it out.
Ok, information is just two clicks away... guess I failed exa-society entrance test number one...
Gosh, I keep on editing this, I should just read it before I submit - but I suppose submission might be interesting in itself - especially if you are an alleged cult leader!
Keith A. Raniere
by Christelle on Wed Dec 26, 2007 13:25
Are you a member of Mega society ? and if yes, by which iq test ?
Christelle
by Keith A. Raniere on Wed Dec 26, 2007 21:09
???I thought you knew who I was or at least who "Keith Raniere" was. I scored 46 out of 48 on the mega test, see above (depending on how it is normed) also there was another minor controversy. Knowing me I always get into trouble. I always thought my autobiography should be called either Any more bright ideas? or Keith Raniere: Unauthorized biography!
I was a member of the Old Mega society. I originally renamed it, The Hoeflin Research Group to brand it and let it be Ron's without controversy (hoping to stop some of the foolishness associated with the HiIQ societies.) This was back in the day when Eric Hart and Chris Langan were still two different people (oops, I think I gave away another answer to the above!)
Keith A. Raniere
by Christelle on Thu Dec 27, 2007 08:27
OK...
Christelle
by Keith A. Raniere on Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:31
So much for friendship and Kool-aid
Keith A. Raniere
MORE TO FOLLOW
More from forum for genius types:
by Christelle on Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:25
I wish you a good courage, Keith.
Christelle
by Keith A. Raniere on Thu Dec 27, 2007 13:38
For?
Are there any questions you have about the "cult" thing? It may well be you do not care. In that case, there are certainly many other things of which to speak (type.)
Keith A. Raniere
by Christelle on Thu Dec 27, 2007 14:20
Excuse-me for not understanding you...
I am conscious that it is annoying for you, Keith...
Christelle
by Keith A. Raniere on Fri Dec 28, 2007 01:44
It not annoying me! It is probably because of my bad internet communication skills I am not giving the impression I want. I was attempting to be playful :shock19: So am I the one that should be :oops: ! I suspect your primary language is french, N'est-ce pas?
Keith A. Raniere
by Anemone on Sat Dec 29, 2007 03:32
I actually have a question about this cult thing. Who is the librarian?
A little background: I met a young woman at a do in Vancouver and she invited me (without knowing anything about me - none of this is her fault) to an introductory lecture on esp (executive success programs). When I got there, everyone was so friendly I thought "this has to be a cult".
Anyway, this was mostly film people in Vancouver. One guy got up and basically did a short standup routine then introduced our main speaker, Mark Vicente, who was on the production team for What the Bleep Do We Know? and I have no idea what he's done since.
He told us about esp and its founders, one of whom is the smartest man (person???, or just man???) in the world, with an IQ of 240. Ok, instantly I am wondering who this is. Mark never said, so I had to look it up when I got home. And the answer is Keith Raniere, with a score on the Mega of 46/48. How this translates to a valid IQ score of 240 I leave others to debate for the moment…
by Keith A. Raniere on Sat Dec 29, 2007 15:12
So I spoke to Mark V. last night--we play volleyball together. It was his impression the "librarian" was male. He was repeating a story told to him by others. I suspect the "librarian" is Ron Hoeflin (who has never claimed he was of "Mega" level intelligence, but certainly of "genius" intelligence.) I reject the use of such stories--and my childhood IQ--to illustrate anything ordinarily associated with a high IQ. An IQ of 240 is of course an obsurdity unless the S.D. and mean bring it within say 5 or 6 sigma…. I use my "high IQ" story to illustrate the opposite of what most people think of a high IQ. But enough of my drivel--for now. Is there anything else I can tell about my "cultish" activities or any rumors of sacrificed chickens or my somewhat poor but earnest volleyball skills?
Keith A. Raniere
by Christelle on Sat Dec 29, 2007 16:24
Keith Raniere, why haven't you apply for Cerebral Fellow's membership ?
Christelle
by Anemone on Sat Dec 29, 2007 17:16
Maybe he hasn't taken any of the right tests. I never got around to joining because I'd have had to write a different test and I just couldn't get around to it (I was using GRE to get into everything else). What's really bad is if you have an excellent score from something and you threw it out.
Keith, my impression from Mark's story is that he was enthralled by your high intelligence, and that it somehow made your work more credible. (I guess most people don't find that idea as hilarious as I do. I've spent too much time in HIQ land to take it seriously.) One of the things I worry about is that people who put high IQ on a pedestal are just as likely to turn on us and savage us, and at least some of us already have enough problems being gifted as it is.
Anemone
by Christelle on Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:55
Perhaps...
And like you, Anemone, I do not particularly appreciate people who feel above everyone because of their IQ scores !
Christelle
MORE TO FOLLOW
Now this is very very boring but revealing from same forum. How do his followers stand to listen to him drone on. Must be really out of it.
by Keith A. Raniere on Mon Dec 31, 2007 14:59
Jumping backwards for a second (sorry)... Actually, my thoughts on my "intelligence" as measured through IQ tests go as follows: Some children play tennis from the time they are very little. When they grow up, if they have continued tennis obsessively, they will likely be able to outplay virtually all non-tennis playing opponents - and most of the tennis playing public... I have been an obsessive problem solver since I was very young, I also have a very good memory. Very, VERY, few people from the non-problem-solver realm stand a chance against me on one of those cute psychological instruments--they do not have the experience, they do not have the drive, they are like not "primed" to solve problems. Someone like myself has had hundreds of obsessive analytical thoughts before breakfest, such a test is just a trivial extension of that process.
...As I assume is true for most people on this board, normal IQ tests pose a variety of problems we have either seen or seen similar. Even if a problem is foreign, our highly developed and practiced process of problem solving provides a good road to the seemingly obvious answer. Do I think IQ tests are useful? Yes, to a degree. I believe they help identify certain types of individuals. Are high IQ societies useful? Yes, they help bring a bunch of us, with similar weird processes and obsessions, together in a world where we are statistically isolated.
...Even with my care, I handed in my result sheet and found shortly thereafter I had copied one of my answers incorrectly (one of the easier problems on the test!) I called Ron who had missed my mistake. Although I had not received my score in the mail, I received a 46 depending on if you count the phone call with 1 answer changed as a second attempt. To me it felt more like closing the trunk of my car and, at the last minute, seeing my keys too late to stop my motion.
...How many people took the test but weren't driven to be more certain of their answers or push to solve all the problems? Many. I have the problem solving skill, the emotional drive, and the obsessive-compulsive focus to score well on such tests.
If a tree falls in the woods and noone is there to hear... If a super-genius can solve all the problems on IQ tests and never contributes a solution that effects anyone else... well, you get the picture. I believe it is not our intelligence that is important, it is what we do with it (coming from an infamous, alleged, "cult" leader and pyramid scheme operator this could be construed as either pathetic or funny!) Actually, our horse power is irrelevant, it is what we do with the plow. Of course, identifying and culturing the best horses for plowing is useful but not the essence of life. I think joyful people, wise people, athletic people contribute in equally valuable ways to others. Intellect can be uniquely used to add to the accumulated technology of the world but I believe technology is not the end-all of existence and some of the best technological advances were not created by super-geniuses.
OMG! I just wondered if I should submit such a longwinded stream of...? But, I did write it so I guess it's authentically me. To think, if I had not looked up I would have written more. I was just about to get into the sad politics of some HiIQ type societies. Hope I didn't offend, bore, or exceed my welcome.
Keith A. Raniere
MORE TO FOLLOW
Continuation of forum...
by Christelle on Mon Dec 31, 2007 15:02
Thank you very much for all that explanation, Keith A. Raniere.
Christelle
by Keith A. Raniere on Sat Jan 05, 2008 22:12
I have a number of opinions about the politics in HiIQ groups, but I also want to speak with honor; respecting all individuals and their differences of opinion. With respect to the Mega test, I would discuss some of the problems if they are already public knowledge and such discussion is non-objectionable to Ron Hoeflin. I respect Ron Hoeflin although we disagree on certain things relating to the Mega test (I suspect this is true of any two rational opinionated individuals.) I also created a series of problems which I have not released because I question the purpose and use of such things.
I have a different view on the history and politics of these groups for I had never been involved in a HiIQ society before my involvement with Mega in the late '80s. I briefly resurfaced a few years ago and visited a meeting held by Christopher Langan. Additionally, over the years, I've had a few positive conversations Kevin Langdon on the phone. I realize some of these people are at odds, so I find myself unaffiliated with any faction yet hopeful of creating friendships within the community (if I can keep from stepping on the toes of others.) I suspect the "cult" stuff has factored into some of the polite refusals I have experienced.
Any thoughts or questions?
Keith A. Raniere
by Keith A. Raniere on Tue Jan 08, 2008 18:45
Have I killed this thread?
b y Christelle on Wed Jan 09, 2008 08:55
No ! Everyone has one's opinion ! :D19
Christelle
by Keith A. Raniere on Wed Jan 09, 2008 14:32
That's yours! :)
It turns out we are really all just automata and our opinions have us!
Keith A. Raniere
by Keith A. Raniere on Fri Jan 11, 2008 21:28
Descartes walks into a bar and the bartender says, "Can I get you a drink?" Descartes answers, "I think not" and disappears.
Keith A. Raniere
by Keith A. Raniere on Fri Jan 18, 2008 02:41
I guess this thread has passed to the hands of Atropos. :cry19:
Keith A. Raniere
by Christelle on Fri Jan 18, 2008 08:42
Do not cry Keith : that makes me sad. :lol19:
Christelle
by Keith A. Raniere on Fri Jan 18, 2008 13:45
Why do you make yourself sad over what I do? After all, many would be happy over my crying! :lol19: Maybe this thread can still get a little length...
Keith A. Raniere
by Anemone on Wed Aug 20, 2008 19:14
Nheeren wrote:
This is in reply to an old post, but I am trying to speak with Keith Raniere. There have been allegations of a "cult" which are ridiculous
Nancy
You won't find him here. He visited for a short while then left again. If you live in the right area you can take some of the ESP/Nxivm workshops, and work your way up the ladder. Then you'd get to meet him in person!!! But it takes cash for that.
Or you could try contacting his organization. Google his name for the website.
Postby Nheeren on Thu Aug 21, 2008 02:30
I actually did meet Keith in the early 1990's - I worked for the buying club that was partially the basis for Consumers Buyline. I have some concerns that he and his organizations are unfairly being categorised as a "cult," which sometimes means, a person simply does not understand the organization or the founder. I very much appreciate the hospitality here, as I am basically a "stranger."
Nancy
Saratoga Politics? I don't think so.
He comes across sounding very phony manipulative. Also, a little creepy how he says something and then analysis his own saying and makes joke out of it. He tends to do that alot. That's not very normal and it's a little annoying. Notice almost after every statement he's analyzing his own words to find humour in it. No one except him during the entire conversation made joke or did that. It was him entertaining himself and assuming (projecting) that he was being entertaining to others reading what he wrote.
Very annoying and he does this in person.
Can you imagine spending hours at a time with this guy, fucking want to hang yourself.
People who are naturally funny do not do that. Only people who try and be funny or cute do that. This group of people certainly didn't buy his shit.
Raniere really thinks he's smarter then anyone, we shall see...........
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